I don't speak in tongues. Nor do I heal. Nor do I prophesy. (I did predict that baby Evan would be a fat little chubster. But i didn't get that by looking up and hearing the Lord; I looked down and saw my Lard. ha! That was a good one.) But I've been asked about these gifts before and have been in countless conversations regarding them in the past.
But lately it seems that the conversation has been coming up more and more regarding these controversial giftings of the Spirit. I happened to have read through 1 Cor. 12 a couple days ago regarding the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which include tongues, interpretation of tongues, healing, and prophecy. It's interesting to note that these gifts of the Holy Spirit are included in a list among gifts such as teaching, helping and administration, which no one seems to have a problem with.
I've been asked many times what my position is regarding the charismatic movement and the gifts associated with it. My answer? As my good friend James Hong would say, "I'm open, but cautious." I'm open to what the Holy Spirit can do and am willing to accept the variety of ways He gifts believers to build the Church, but I'm cautious as to how any group or denomination uses and perceives the gifts. As with anything else, the use of the gifts must never ever violate the teaching of Scripture.
But when asked my opinion about the Charismatic gifts (which I think is a misnomer, since all gifts are "charisma", a gifting by God's grace), I honestly answer that I honestly don't know what to make of it. I just haven't been exposed to the Charismatic movement or fellowshipped with charismatic churches to make a fair judgment. I think it's poor witness that so many Evangelicals are quick to make blanket statements without having taken the time to learn more about the subject.
So, I'm willing to learn. I know many of you reading this are probably from within my own community, so you're probably in the same place as I am in terms of what you've experienced. But maybe not.
So my question is, whoever you are, what has been your experience with charismatic gifts or charismatic groups? Should we as Christians be more open or closed to what seems to be growing throughout the world?
10 comments:
My position on this depends on what you mean by "speaking in tongues"? Another language perhaps? How about Mandarin?
I was in a prayer meeting once when a friend started speaking in a language i didn't recognize. He said he hadn't "spoken in tongues" in a long time, and that came as a surprise. The good thing is that he was able to translate for himself what he was saying, since there was no one there who understood. So, i guess it was good?
you are a humble man.
:)
I think tongues and the "controversial gifts" are like all other gifts. They need to encourage and build up the body. Sometimes we get self absorbed in our gifts and end up glorifying ourselves.
Greg, I may come to believe that Evangelicals much too quickly assume wrong of a lot of Charismatic folk. Like I know Paul says to test it, like if someone speaks in tongues there ought to be someone with the gift to translate that. However, things like prophecy can't be "tested" per se. It might be out of line for me to suggest, but sometimes we need to have faith I think. Jesus seemed more of a "have faith" sort of guy than a "make sure this is legit" sort of guy. I mean there's nothing wrong to hope for a prophecy to come true especially if the prophecy is beneficial to the kingdom.. I feel like I worded things and ideas worse than I would want to, but in my defense, I'm running on 2-3 hours of sleep (so I hereby reserve my right to take back my comment =X)
"Open but cautious" is a good way to put it. It is how I feel. I've been to both ends of churches, from very strongly charismatic pentecostal churches that encourage you to open your mouth and allow the sounds to flow so that you "do not restrict the Spirit's work" and may even question your salvation if you never do speak in tongues, to strict Presbyterians who believe that these gifts ended with the early Apostolic church.
I definitely do NOT believe in the emphasis on tongues as the criteria for being "baptised by the Spirit" and evidence of salvation. I think, especially the mentality of "just let it all flow" is dangerous, because it is easy to let our own emotions fuel the hype, but more importantly, we do not know what spirits we allow to act when we just "let go." Throughout the bible, we read of the power in words, the power of the tongue, the power to create and lift up, and the power to destroy. Curses and blessings have the power of words and intent behind them, and in those moments, we allow whatever spirit is ruler in our lives to act, whether it is hatred, anger, jealousy, or love, healing, or the desire to do the will of Christ. Christianity is not a "let go" and "trance" kind of religion. Following Christ requires discernment and constant communication with God to know his will. We are called to test everything, including ourselves. We are told to meditate on the Word, not to make your mind blank as other belief systems call for. We are told that we will be refined by fire and broken to be remoulded time and time again. It is a self-conscious attitude of humility and a self-conscious submission of will, not mindlessness, to God.
Thus, God is in control, and the gifts of His Spirit are also in His control. I don't believe in us having control of the Spirit to have these gifts at any given time, nor do I believe that the Spirit is so constantly babbling that when we just empty our minds and let Him work, tongues will spill out of our lips. God works very often in silences and in the stillness.
The important thing is that the Spirit works with purpose, not as a sideshow. The gift of tongues is coupled with the gift of interpretation. In the major biblical example, the Spirit descended, and they began to speak in the various tongues of the land. In this case, the Spirit was working this gift to use them people to spread the Word to others in their own tongue, and so the interpretation lies with the recipient. The gift of tongues there also even more emphasises the omnipotence and sovereignty of God, regardless of the land from which you come. 1 Corinthians 14 points out that open mouthed babbling, without interpretation, for the sake of proving spirituality in a crowd of others, does not bring glory to God, acknowledgement of God to unbelievers, or serve to teach anything. Because God expects us to be conscious in our speech and our prayers, so that either we or the recipient can understand the meaning.
1 Corinthians 14 also differentiates speaking in tongues with prophesying, and says to desire the gift of prophecy even more, because speaking in a tongue speaks mysteries in the spirit to God (another reason why I don't believe in the gifts being used freely for mass human consumption) to edify himself, whereas prophesying edifies others.
Definitely not saying this of all charismatic churches. But being grounded in the Word is most important criteria because it helps us understand the will of God and discern the source of whatever gifts we use.
As for the delineation between the gifts, I do not have a problem with their existence, but 1 Corinthians 12 does list the gifts with a certain hierarchy. The first three, listed in order, are positions - appointments - in the church: apostles, prophets, and teachers. The following are listed as gifts, rather than appointments: miracles, gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. So I see that as things being given or taken away by God at His will, not designated to a person by appointment for any one time.
There are versions of gifts, and it doesn't all have to be big, bright, and flashy. Sometimes the gift of prophecy comes to somebody during prayer, and even they are unsure of what God wants them to do, whether it's a full command to action for someone or simply a small, relevant word of encouragement. Healing, as well. Or, if God so chooses to make His presence known, it may be quite noticeable, but the emphasis is on glory to Him, not to the one with the gift.
I don't find any biblical foundation for the lack of gifts either. Nothing in the bible suggests that only the Apostles and the early church had them, and now they're closed off to us. If that were the case, the bible wouldn't spend chapters talking about gifts and their intent and urging us to desire spiritual gifts. It wouldn't make sense that God would suddenly decide that we should not desire, and He does not want to give us, what are essentially the spiritual skills necessary to be used in specific situations to glorify Him.
At the church I attend right now, Kairos (John Feng went here too), the pastor loosely defines us as "reformed charismatic." He says he appreciates the openness, sincerity, and passion of charismatics, in being open to communication from God and to accepting His gifts or commands. But he also believes very strongly in prayerfully consulting God, and the Word, before jumping to conclusions about something.
Wow, Theophila, I appreciate your thoughtful, well-worded, and well written response. I appreciate the others who responded as well. Theophila, seems like you've had a good handle on 1 Cor 12 and 14. It sounds like you've wrestled with this before, or at least had some thorough study on the issue. I'm really thankful to see that the Word is your authority, in your answer and in the way you answered! I agree with much of what you've said, and I think it's in line with what your pastor's position. I think we have a lot to learn from "Charismatic" Christians. As our brothers and sisters, we ought to be built up by them by their good example. At the same time, as your pastor urges, we need to submit to God and His Word. There are so many things to address and "Amen" to in what you and the others wrote, that I just can't do it here. But thank you for your thoughts, especially those who have shared from your experience.
It's what I'm looking for. Anyone else have experiences that they have to contribute? The more, the more informed. Thanks!
I'm always a bit uncomfortable by conservatives who have an attitude of "OMG, I've never seen this before, so it's probably bad." Our ability to put the power of God into a box is stupendous.
For sure there are all kinds of frauds and weird things going on, but there is also certainly a creative, powerful God who has no limit to his love for mankind that is willing and able to do things outside of our "boxes".
I've seen most of these gifts in action and don't really have any good reasons to think that they have absolutely ceased from happening nowadays.
Jesus shares that we can judge a tree by its fruit, and I've seen a lot of fruit through various displays of the Spirit's power, bringing people to fall more and more in love with the King.
I agree with what a trustworthy, conservative Christian told me regarding his view of God after spending much time on the mission field... "Don't put God in a box."
We limit in our minds what can and will God do in the world for the spread of the Gospel.
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